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	<title>Comments on: HOA&#8217;s in Color Country</title>
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	<link>http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/</link>
	<description>Southern Utah is Color Country!</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 13 May 2010 05:16:54 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mona HARES</title>
		<link>http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/comment-page-1/#comment-1292</link>
		<dc:creator>Mona HARES</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/#comment-1292</guid>
		<description>Continue Dan I appreciate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Continue Dan I appreciate</p>
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		<title>By: DanM</title>
		<link>http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/comment-page-1/#comment-1291</link>
		<dc:creator>DanM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/#comment-1291</guid>
		<description>&quot;Doubt it would be fun for you if all you did was make a lot of noise on your blog and then nothing happened because you’ve written&quot;

Oh ... I dunno. I&#039;m one of those guys who would buy a hundred dollar ticket to hear himself sing in the shower. I can see you don&#039;t have a proper appreciation of the level of narcissism I have achieved.

I think I&#039;ll continue to blog and have fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Doubt it would be fun for you if all you did was make a lot of noise on your blog and then nothing happened because you’ve written&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh &#8230; I dunno. I&#8217;m one of those guys who would buy a hundred dollar ticket to hear himself sing in the shower. I can see you don&#8217;t have a proper appreciation of the level of narcissism I have achieved.</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;ll continue to blog and have fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Carleen</title>
		<link>http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/comment-page-1/#comment-1290</link>
		<dc:creator>Carleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/#comment-1290</guid>
		<description>Wow - 15 comments on HOAs, but 0 on the amendment idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow &#8211; 15 comments on HOAs, but 0 on the amendment idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Peggy</title>
		<link>http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/comment-page-1/#comment-1289</link>
		<dc:creator>Peggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 03:42:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/#comment-1289</guid>
		<description>Guess it&#039;s all in one&#039;s definition of &quot;fun.&quot;  I had fun (and got a whole whale lot of exercise!) because I was building something and wanted a positive outcome.  And I got a positive outcome and then I didn&#039;t have to do walk around and put flyers out anymore - flyers on doorknobs was just kind of like pushing to get the engine started.  

I think you also want a positive outcome.  Doubt it would be fun for you if all you did was make a lot of noise on your blog and then nothing happened because you&#039;ve written (above) that you would like your HOA in Springdale to cease to be and you also think there is a larger issue that they should not exist at all.

Some people who did what I did purchased a franchise.  I wanted something different than franchises offered.  Sounds like RP knows about something kind of akin to a franchise - a group you could be part of that wants, kind of, the same thing you do.  But you have said the &quot;franchise&quot; (AOPC) isn&#039;t exactly doing what you want (&quot;periodic bleeding of HOA cows&quot;).  

So, you want to start something that will fulfill your goal.  And your goal, as you&#039;ve stated, is to get rid of HOAs.  You can blog and have fun - but it might take some grunt work to build something that will do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guess it&#8217;s all in one&#8217;s definition of &#8220;fun.&#8221;  I had fun (and got a whole whale lot of exercise!) because I was building something and wanted a positive outcome.  And I got a positive outcome and then I didn&#8217;t have to do walk around and put flyers out anymore &#8211; flyers on doorknobs was just kind of like pushing to get the engine started.  </p>
<p>I think you also want a positive outcome.  Doubt it would be fun for you if all you did was make a lot of noise on your blog and then nothing happened because you&#8217;ve written (above) that you would like your HOA in Springdale to cease to be and you also think there is a larger issue that they should not exist at all.</p>
<p>Some people who did what I did purchased a franchise.  I wanted something different than franchises offered.  Sounds like RP knows about something kind of akin to a franchise &#8211; a group you could be part of that wants, kind of, the same thing you do.  But you have said the &#8220;franchise&#8221; (AOPC) isn&#8217;t exactly doing what you want (&#8220;periodic bleeding of HOA cows&#8221;).  </p>
<p>So, you want to start something that will fulfill your goal.  And your goal, as you&#8217;ve stated, is to get rid of HOAs.  You can blog and have fun &#8211; but it might take some grunt work to build something that will do that.</p>
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		<title>By: DanM</title>
		<link>http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/comment-page-1/#comment-1288</link>
		<dc:creator>DanM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/#comment-1288</guid>
		<description>Wow! You&#039;re way more into this than I am. (HOA&#039;s, not blogging.) On the other hand, I&#039;m way into this more than you are. (Blogging, not HOA&#039;s.)

It&#039;s kind of like that seventies song:

I got a brand new pair of roller skates 
You got a brand new key 
I think that we should get together and try them out you see 

How do you guys organize and communicate?

The AOPC, however, is one principal outfit that exists on the periodic bleeding of HOA cows. They may be doing something to empower HOA&#039;s but they&#039;re doing nothing to get rid of them. That&#039;s what I want.

I&#039;ll bet your answer to the question above was, &quot;Well ... the AOPC has this great web site ... &quot;

Does the word &quot;co-opt&quot; have meaning for you?

---------------

Verb co-opt 

neutralize or win over through assimilation into an established group; &quot;We co-opted the independent minority tribes by pulling them into the Northern Alliance&quot;

neutralize - make politically neutral and thus inoffensive; &quot;The treaty neutralized the small republic&quot; 

appoint summarily or commandeer; &quot;The army tried to co-opt peasants into civil defence groups&quot;

take or assume for one&#039;s own use; &quot;He co-opted the criticism and embraced it&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! You&#8217;re way more into this than I am. (HOA&#8217;s, not blogging.) On the other hand, I&#8217;m way into this more than you are. (Blogging, not HOA&#8217;s.)</p>
<p>It&#8217;s kind of like that seventies song:</p>
<p>I got a brand new pair of roller skates<br />
You got a brand new key<br />
I think that we should get together and try them out you see </p>
<p>How do you guys organize and communicate?</p>
<p>The AOPC, however, is one principal outfit that exists on the periodic bleeding of HOA cows. They may be doing something to empower HOA&#8217;s but they&#8217;re doing nothing to get rid of them. That&#8217;s what I want.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll bet your answer to the question above was, &#8220;Well &#8230; the AOPC has this great web site &#8230; &#8221;</p>
<p>Does the word &#8220;co-opt&#8221; have meaning for you?</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Verb co-opt </p>
<p>neutralize or win over through assimilation into an established group; &#8220;We co-opted the independent minority tribes by pulling them into the Northern Alliance&#8221;</p>
<p>neutralize &#8211; make politically neutral and thus inoffensive; &#8220;The treaty neutralized the small republic&#8221; </p>
<p>appoint summarily or commandeer; &#8220;The army tried to co-opt peasants into civil defence groups&#8221;</p>
<p>take or assume for one&#8217;s own use; &#8220;He co-opted the criticism and embraced it&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: RPMcMurphy</title>
		<link>http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/comment-page-1/#comment-1287</link>
		<dc:creator>RPMcMurphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/#comment-1287</guid>
		<description>Dan -- you are right about a movement waiting to be tapped.  We have been able to do that to some extent in St George.  About 10 years ago the Association of PUDs and Condominiums was formed as kind of an umbrella lobbying and activism voice for member HOAs mostly in St George and Washington City.  The last I heard HOAs with homes totally more than 5,000 units were members of the AOPC.  That gives the AOPC some clout and they have been able to negotiate some concessions by the city including having the city and HOA each pay half the cost of bringing sewer systems up to code after which the city would assume responsibility for the sewer.  After two failed attempts the VP of the AOPC was elected to the city council in St George.  Another candidate for the council and a candidate for mayor -- both endorsed by the AOPC -- were not elected but one strong pro-HOA voice was.  If you want to have influence with the local government you need to able to deliver voters or at least cause the incumbents to believe you can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan &#8212; you are right about a movement waiting to be tapped.  We have been able to do that to some extent in St George.  About 10 years ago the Association of PUDs and Condominiums was formed as kind of an umbrella lobbying and activism voice for member HOAs mostly in St George and Washington City.  The last I heard HOAs with homes totally more than 5,000 units were members of the AOPC.  That gives the AOPC some clout and they have been able to negotiate some concessions by the city including having the city and HOA each pay half the cost of bringing sewer systems up to code after which the city would assume responsibility for the sewer.  After two failed attempts the VP of the AOPC was elected to the city council in St George.  Another candidate for the council and a candidate for mayor &#8212; both endorsed by the AOPC &#8212; were not elected but one strong pro-HOA voice was.  If you want to have influence with the local government you need to able to deliver voters or at least cause the incumbents to believe you can.</p>
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		<title>By: DanM</title>
		<link>http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/comment-page-1/#comment-1286</link>
		<dc:creator>DanM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/#comment-1286</guid>
		<description>A - You ARE old fashioned. I&#039;ve known that forever.

B - My priorities are not the same. My first priority is having fun. I am.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A &#8211; You ARE old fashioned. I&#8217;ve known that forever.</p>
<p>B &#8211; My priorities are not the same. My first priority is having fun. I am.</p>
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		<title>By: Peggy</title>
		<link>http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/comment-page-1/#comment-1285</link>
		<dc:creator>Peggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/#comment-1285</guid>
		<description>But how do people learn about your blog so you can link with people using the blog?  

I may be old-fashioned, but the way I got my business started (15 years ago) was I spent several years putting flyers on door handles.  I believe I&#039;ve walked on every street (where incomes are above poverty levels) in Davis and Weber Counties, some of them twice!  But I think that&#039;s what worked best for me.  And I had a catchy way to get people to look at my flyers.  The area you would have to canvass is small compared to what I had.  I had ads in the phone books, on bulletin boards, I took part in fund-raising auctions of social service agencies, word of mouth helped also.  But I think what worked best for me was flyers on door handles - and bulletin boards at grocery stores, etc.  -  Flyers could reference the problem and your blog.  -  So I guess I agree with Phillip&#039;s method.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But how do people learn about your blog so you can link with people using the blog?  </p>
<p>I may be old-fashioned, but the way I got my business started (15 years ago) was I spent several years putting flyers on door handles.  I believe I&#8217;ve walked on every street (where incomes are above poverty levels) in Davis and Weber Counties, some of them twice!  But I think that&#8217;s what worked best for me.  And I had a catchy way to get people to look at my flyers.  The area you would have to canvass is small compared to what I had.  I had ads in the phone books, on bulletin boards, I took part in fund-raising auctions of social service agencies, word of mouth helped also.  But I think what worked best for me was flyers on door handles &#8211; and bulletin boards at grocery stores, etc.  &#8211;  Flyers could reference the problem and your blog.  &#8211;  So I guess I agree with Phillip&#8217;s method.</p>
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		<title>By: DanM</title>
		<link>http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/comment-page-1/#comment-1284</link>
		<dc:creator>DanM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/#comment-1284</guid>
		<description>Communication is an interesting artform. 

I just finished reading a New York Times article about how &quot;posters&quot; in Switzerland were a key part of the recent referendum banning Muslim minarets. Posters don&#039;t work like that in America, but they sure do in Europe.

Maybe you saw the news articles recently about how Air America ... the left wing answer to Faux News radio broadcasts ... just went out of business. This while Limbaugh has the world money record for a radio broadcast contract and is raking in more dough doing things like judging the Miss America contest. (Yes, this is the same guy who went on a sex junket to the Dominican Republic with a bottle of Viagra.)

My point is that finding the right way to communicate with people is not easy or obvious. The Planning Commission tried to get people to respond to an online questionaire about ordinance revisions. We got four responses. I don&#039;t think walking up to people&#039;s doors and knocking is the answer ... but then maybe it is. (Our former mayor, Phillip Bimstein, got elected that way.) Posting a notice at the Post Office? Put an ad in the paper? I don&#039;t know.

Right now, I&#039;m trying to convince people that we really could communicate using the facilities of the Internet and a public forum. I put some effort into trying to interest Springdale in sponsoring and managing an online forum. I even located a sugar-daddy foundation that would fund it if we applied for a grant. That flew like a concrete albatross. So now I&#039;m seeing if I can jump start the process using my own web page.

Sometimes, its just a process of pressing all the panels in the library until you find the one that opens the secret door.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Communication is an interesting artform. </p>
<p>I just finished reading a New York Times article about how &#8220;posters&#8221; in Switzerland were a key part of the recent referendum banning Muslim minarets. Posters don&#8217;t work like that in America, but they sure do in Europe.</p>
<p>Maybe you saw the news articles recently about how Air America &#8230; the left wing answer to Faux News radio broadcasts &#8230; just went out of business. This while Limbaugh has the world money record for a radio broadcast contract and is raking in more dough doing things like judging the Miss America contest. (Yes, this is the same guy who went on a sex junket to the Dominican Republic with a bottle of Viagra.)</p>
<p>My point is that finding the right way to communicate with people is not easy or obvious. The Planning Commission tried to get people to respond to an online questionaire about ordinance revisions. We got four responses. I don&#8217;t think walking up to people&#8217;s doors and knocking is the answer &#8230; but then maybe it is. (Our former mayor, Phillip Bimstein, got elected that way.) Posting a notice at the Post Office? Put an ad in the paper? I don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>Right now, I&#8217;m trying to convince people that we really could communicate using the facilities of the Internet and a public forum. I put some effort into trying to interest Springdale in sponsoring and managing an online forum. I even located a sugar-daddy foundation that would fund it if we applied for a grant. That flew like a concrete albatross. So now I&#8217;m seeing if I can jump start the process using my own web page.</p>
<p>Sometimes, its just a process of pressing all the panels in the library until you find the one that opens the secret door.</p>
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		<title>By: DanM</title>
		<link>http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/comment-page-1/#comment-1283</link>
		<dc:creator>DanM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://colorcomments.com/2010/01/31/hoas-in-color-country/#comment-1283</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your contribution, RP. I don&#039;t know of &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; &quot;happy&quot; HOA members. There&#039;s a lot of discontent here. 

The HOA consulting firms I&#039;ve talked to don&#039;t want to help HOA&#039;s &quot;go away&quot;. They&#039;re the cows that these guys bleed for a living. And, unfortunately, these consulting firms are also just about the only lobbying voice ever heard in the state legislature (other than developers - who are on the other side of the lobbying fence).  So the laws are tweaked to make things easier and more standardized, but also more entrenched. If anybody wonders how bureaucracies are created ... this is how. There is this whole, huge layer of activity that didn&#039;t exist until fairly recently. We got along fine without it years ago, but now we have to have it for some reason.

Now that municipalities, developers, and consulting firms are realizing how they can profit (at the expense of ordinary people like you and me), HOA&#039;s are becoming the &quot;standard model&quot;.

I&#039;m convinced that there is a movement here just waiting to be tapped. Before there were so many of us, we could be safely ignored because we would never muster enough political pressure to actually make a difference in an election. But as I learn more about it, I&#039;m realizing that it might be possible to put the shafting of unwilling HOA members to work and actually throw people out of office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your contribution, RP. I don&#8217;t know of <i>any</i> &#8220;happy&#8221; HOA members. There&#8217;s a lot of discontent here. </p>
<p>The HOA consulting firms I&#8217;ve talked to don&#8217;t want to help HOA&#8217;s &#8220;go away&#8221;. They&#8217;re the cows that these guys bleed for a living. And, unfortunately, these consulting firms are also just about the only lobbying voice ever heard in the state legislature (other than developers &#8211; who are on the other side of the lobbying fence).  So the laws are tweaked to make things easier and more standardized, but also more entrenched. If anybody wonders how bureaucracies are created &#8230; this is how. There is this whole, huge layer of activity that didn&#8217;t exist until fairly recently. We got along fine without it years ago, but now we have to have it for some reason.</p>
<p>Now that municipalities, developers, and consulting firms are realizing how they can profit (at the expense of ordinary people like you and me), HOA&#8217;s are becoming the &#8220;standard model&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m convinced that there is a movement here just waiting to be tapped. Before there were so many of us, we could be safely ignored because we would never muster enough political pressure to actually make a difference in an election. But as I learn more about it, I&#8217;m realizing that it might be possible to put the shafting of unwilling HOA members to work and actually throw people out of office.</p>
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